Get in the Zone, Modern Cigar Smokers (feat. Light ‘Em Up Lounge) | Box Press Ep. 58

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- I do that in my sensory seminars, for example

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with apples or tomatoes.

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I would present all the people at the seminar

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with a slice of apple on the tray.

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And right after you would get a slice of apple or tomato,

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same fruit or vegetable from a different plate.

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And then I asked people about their experience,

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and the first one is probably gonna be fresh,

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has more acidity, more liveliness,

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probably feels a little unripe even.

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Whereas the second one is luscious, mellow, full,

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sweet, peak ripe.

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And the only thing that I alter is the color of the plate

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or the tray that I'm serving it from.

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So one might be light blue and the other one is deep red.

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- [Rob Gagner] No way.

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- And the visual backgrounds

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will alter your overall experience.

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And only afterwards I tell people it's the very same fruit.

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It's the very same piece of vegetable that you just enjoyed,

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but it's the surrounding elements

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that will change everything.

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- I love this.

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You changed the color of the presentation plate.

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- Yep.

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- And it made the fruit taste different.

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- And that's why I said for a tobacconist,

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think about how you present cigars in your store.

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Think about the tray that you use to present certain cigars.

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And if I want my customer to have a more

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like a soft connotation or an idea of that cigar,

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it could be mellow, creamy, not overly spicy.

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I'd much rather choose a round plate,

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maybe velvet on there,

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because that will already impact people's perception

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on how the cigar will ultimately feel and taste.

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- A velvet round plate

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that I put my creamy, buttery, smooth cigars on.

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There's a story inside every smoke shop

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with every cigar and with every person.

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Come be a part of the cigar lifestyle of Boveda.

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This is Box Press.

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Welcome everyone to another episode of Box Press.

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I'm a your host, Rob Gagner of Boveda.

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And I am at 2021s PCA show,

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and I'm sitting down with a very special guest from Austria.

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His name is Reinhard.

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You've probably heard of him.

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He's on Light 'Em Up Lounge.

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He's in editorial for Cigar Journal.

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He's all over the place.

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He specializes in sensory experiences.

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And we're gonna give you some tips and tricks

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on how to make your cigar smoking experience better.

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So pay attention, grab a notebook, take some notes.

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And if you want to apply some of these tidbits and tricks

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to your next smoking experience for the next few months

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and watch yourself get blown away.

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Reinhard, thank you so much for joining us.

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- It's my pleasure.

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Thanks for having me, Rob.

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Do you do all the warm-up spiel like

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(Reinhard makes gibberish sound effects).

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- (Rob makes gibberish sound effects)

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And we're now ready to warm up our voices.

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I actually did vocal exercises before videos.

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I had to Google it on YouTube

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and this lady was, you know,

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stretching out your tongue and the whole thing.

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And it works.

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- Of course.

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- I didn't get the tongue tiedness.

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I was "pronounciating" everything.

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And hitting my, you know, correct dictation.

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- Your voice is just as much an instrument

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as all your other senses.

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- And muscles.

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- Absolutely.

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- The tongue.

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You muscles, your lips, your mouth.

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- Facial, everything. - Your jaw.

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You know, it's real hard

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if you don't open up your mouth

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to really understand you.

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- Excellence Institute in Vienna, Austria,

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which focuses on that.

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And they have a business rhetoric diploma

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that I did,

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and I'm now working for them as a business rhetoric coach.

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So I'm very well familiar with those kind of things.

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- Really?

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- Yeah.

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- So you coach people how to vocal exercises or what?

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- Well, the particular focus of the business rhetoric

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side of things

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is more regarding skills like pitching, killer phrases,

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how to properly communicate

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in the stressful business environments,

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and make sure that you're communicating the right messages

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the way you want them to be.

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And I sort of wove that into,

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with everything else that I do

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regarding experiential design and multi-sensory.

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So I have a program that's called experience communication,

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and it's about implementing all the senses

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into your corporate culture

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and making sure that you communicate that

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in the most holistic and stringent way.

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- in that sense,

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that sense that you're talking about

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is how they say things to you as a consumer.

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So how the establishment talks to you

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matters on your experience.

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- Absolutely.

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- Retail tip number one,

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in this episode,

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let's jam on this.

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You come into my shop, you come up to the register,

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I'm standing there and I tell you

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did you find everything okay?

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What do you say?

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- As an analysis to that?

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- Yeah, did you say, what would you say to that

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if you've got asked that?

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Would you say yeah, I found everything okay?

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- First of all,

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I'd be gobsmacked because how about you start with

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good morning, sir.

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Great to have you.

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Welcome to our shop. - Let's say I did that.

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Let's say this is after you've come into my shop,

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you went into the humidor, you got to buy,

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I've already greeted you,

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and I say did you find everything okay?

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- I guess it really depends on whether people

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are super honest and tell you no, I didn't.

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- Well, how does that make you feel when you hear that?

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Does that make you feel superficial?

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Intimate?

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Are you asking me a specific question?

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Are you asking me a general question?

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- It feels very learned.

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- Learned.

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- And...

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- Scripted.

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- Exactly.

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- It is.

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- Not sincere and authentic.

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- And do you even know how to answer the question?

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Did you find everything okay?

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- That's why I said I wouldn't know

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how to respond to that properly

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because you're going to be real and authentic

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and be like no, I certainly didn't.

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- If we break it down in my mind,

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it's did you find everything okay?

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Yeah, your shop is okay.

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I, this is a smoke shop.

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I walked in here to buy premium cigars.

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You have them, it's okay.

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If I drop okay at the end of the sentence,

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it immediately changes.

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- You set the bar.

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- Did you find everything?

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Yeah, I did.

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No, I didn't.

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I didn't see a Crux Epicure in the humidor,

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do you have them?

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Or I'm not here trying to find something,

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I'm actually here trying to learn.

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That changes the paradigm.

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- And what if you just phrase the question differently

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and ask what could I possibly do

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to make your experience more comfortable and more enjoyable?

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Because that is a question that comes from heart

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and shows that you actually care

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about the other person.

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- You're not from Minnesota are you?

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- Not really.

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- Minnesota nice you'd be like

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oh no, I don't want you to do anything

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to make my life better.

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It's Minnesota nice.

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Do you think, because you're from Austria,

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if you ask that question,

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somebody would actually say

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actually, I would love it if you got me a coffee.

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- I think so.

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- They would?

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- Yeah.

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- That's a totally different opinion, or not opinion,

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that's just totally different fact

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between our culture and your culture.

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- Well, you know, Austrians are also known

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for being slightly grumpy every now and then,

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especially when you go to the coffee houses.

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That's part of our culture and DNA.

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- Sure.

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- Especially in Vienna,

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but some people will probably feel rubbed the wrong way

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and then tell you like what do give a #!&% about?

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And just leave me alone, but...

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- Yeah, why do you care?

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Why are you asking?

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I don't know you.

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- I just wouldn't mind

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because I'm such a positive person at heart.

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And I truly care about other people,

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because I love people.

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Like we're having a great conversation.

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This to me is most enjoyable.

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It's what makes life.

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And I'd much rather spend every single day of my life

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as positively as I can

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and surrounding myself with great people,

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and having good conversations.

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Why do I want to be mad

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and unfriendly to other people?

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It just doesn't come naturally to me.

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- You have to break,

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if anyone out there is working in tobacco retail,

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you gotta break from the script.

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Stop asking those questions.

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Stop asking those scripted questions.

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Did you find everything okay?

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Did you find everything you needed?

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Is there anything, stop asking that?

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- Nope.

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- Ask them the question,

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if it were me,

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I'd ask them nice selection of cigars here.

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When are you going to smoke them?

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Now we're talking about when you're going to enjoy

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these great cigars.

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That to me is gonna get dialogue back and forth.

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All I want when I ask you a question

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is for you to communicate back to me

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because we can do this transaction

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without ever saying a word.

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That's a really poor transaction in my book.

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- Let me go back to the drawing board.

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My background is in hospitality,

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and the wine and spirits industry,

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and in sensory experiences.

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Hospitality for me is a way of life.

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- Yeah.

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It's not a means of business.

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- Right.

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- And to me, that means to most honestly care

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about the other person

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and whether he or she feels at ease,

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at home to a certain extent.

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I always say the quintessential expression of hospitality

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is when I invite you over for dinner to my house,

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because you're a friend.

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I want you to have the best time.

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- Yeah.

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- I'll bring the most beautiful bottle of wine.

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I'll cook a great meal.

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I'll bring the best cigars.

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And I just want you to feel at home and feel well.

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That is the quintessence of hospitality.

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And a lot of people who work in the industry

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probably get it in a different way

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because to them, hospitality is a means of business

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and trying to get other people's money,

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which if you work in that industry

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is as a consequence further down the line.

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- Right.

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- But you've got to start with the right intent.

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And I believe that this hospitality mindset

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is at the core of every single business today.

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No matter what it is that you doing,

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you're always dealing with other people.

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And the product, even cigars,

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the product is highly commoditized nowadays.

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It's not what differentiates you.

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What will ultimately set you apart

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from all the other ones out there is the experience,

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and the more holistically and authentically

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and immersive you can make that experience,

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the more substantial,

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the more lasting and sustainable it will be.

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- Right.

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- And so if you have that mindset,

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and truly care about the,

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all the people that walk into your shop,

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or all the people that will smoke your cigars,

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then there is no going wrong

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because you always come from the right place.

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And it will make you realize

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that every single detail counts.

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So for the retailer, start from scratch.

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How does your place feel?

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I mean, from the very first touch points,

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like all these marketing, fluffy words.

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You know, as much as I test them.

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- How does it look and feel?

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- Right.

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How does it look and feel?

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What's even the first touch point for your customer?

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Is it online?

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Is it on the phone?

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Is it somebody just walking through the door?

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So how about the furniture?

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Do you have a carpet?

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Is it a wooden floor?

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Is it a stone floor?

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That will have a dramatic impact.

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How do you present cigars in your shop?

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Do you have wooden tray?

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Is it a leather tray?

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Is it rectangle, square, round.

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- So many variables.

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- You just don't realize, it's subconscious,

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but it has a tremendous impact

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on how you perceive the overall experience.

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And that will even alter your perception

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of smell and taste.

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- Absolutely.

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I like the fact that you talked about the phone,

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the first interaction.

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I would sometimes answer the phone

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instead of saying the script,

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hello this is Tobacco Grove,

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or hello this is Rob at Tobacco Grove.

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I would say hello Tobacco Grove.

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What cigar can I get for you today?

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That's probably why they're calling me, right?

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- Yep.

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- They want to buy a cigar.

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They want to come to the shop.

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They might be lost or whatever.

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It's, I got so much more like people pause

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and say, what did you say?

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I was just asking what cigar I can get for you today.

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Well, I'm not here to get a cigar.

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I'm here to talk to Jeff.

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Jeff's not available right now or not in the office.

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Is there anything else I can do for you?

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It's real easy if it's a sales call,

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I'm going to know.

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If it's a true customer,

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they're gonna be like yeah, I need to get some cigars.

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My name is Tom.

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Oh yeah, hey Tom.

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- Most people are always in for the quick sale

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or the quick win.

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If somebody comes into your shop,

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you think your only agenda and your only target

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is to sell the other person something.

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Quick buck.

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It doesn't matter.

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Even if the guy comes in,

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I'm not in there to push him into buying cigars.

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If he has a great experience.

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He has a good coffee and then he just walks out,

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that's totally fine for me.

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Because he will remember that you provided him

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with a memorable experience.

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And you made him feel welcomed.

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- And not everyone's willing to come in

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and just plop down their credit card

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and buy six boxes right away.

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I had this guy come in in cargo shorts

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and a Hawaiian shirt,

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totally normal looking, came in.

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I asked him if he had any questions

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about the humidor.

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He was very educated.

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He asked me a couple of questions of what I liked.

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I told them right now I really like this and this.

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And he walked out with a few cigars.

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He had a friend with him, sat down,

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they were smoking them.

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They sat by the register and talked to me

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at the little bar area.

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He was asking me all about what cigars I like

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and what do I think about this.

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After chatting me up,

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he goes do you mind going in the humidor with me

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and we pick out some stuff?

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I said great.

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He spent over $1,200 because he was from Canada

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and the taxes in Canada were way higher than they were in,

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at this time, mind you, Minnesota was at 90% wholesale tax.

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It was almost as high as Canada

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being over a hundred percent.

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And he thought it was the greatest thing

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that he could save a couple of bucks

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and have a great opportunity

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to buy some cool cigars that he can't get elsewhere.

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Had I brushed him off

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as like you only bought a couple of sticks from me,

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you're asking me annoying questions.

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Why do you even care?

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You're dressed in cargo shorts and a Hawaiian shirt,

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you have no money,

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it was totally opposite.

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If I put that on him,

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he would add a bad experience.

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We would have had no cool engagement.

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And even if the sale didn't happen,

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it just wouldn't have been a fun environment

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for him to enjoy a cigar.

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Yeah.

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- You can never judge a book by its cover,

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especially with people walking into your shop,

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into your restaurant or bar.

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because you don't know who the other person truly is.

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And then again, to me, it doesn't really matter

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because a simple, humble guy

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with just a few dollars in his pocket,

Speaker: 00:16:34

to me is just as valuable as the billionaire

Speaker: 00:16:38

who walks in and wants to buy half of my humidor

Speaker: 00:16:43

because they're all people.

Speaker: 00:16:45

And especially in the cigar industry.

Speaker: 00:16:48

This is the most wonderful product

Speaker: 00:16:53

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:16:54

- And we're all the same.

Speaker: 00:16:56

We are all family of the leaf.

Speaker: 00:17:00

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:17:02

- That's just mesmerizing.

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Rob, I come from such a simple and humble background.

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I grew up in Vienna, which is a beautiful city,

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but in a very easy family setting.

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We never had much, but we had a family table.

Speaker: 00:17:18

And my earliest childhood memories

Speaker: 00:17:20

evolved around the dinner table

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and baking bread and kneading dough together

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with my grandmother and my grandfather.

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And it gave me a real appreciation

Speaker: 00:17:32

for simple, humble things.

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And for an authentic, real handmade product,

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because it doesn't matter whether you have

Speaker: 00:17:43

all the money in the world or like in our case,

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it's rather simple.

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It's those experiences that matter,

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it's those emotions,

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perceptions and being around people you care about.

Speaker: 00:18:00

That's what life is all about.

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And I think that's what cigars truly mean

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and can bring to us, uniting us,

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and we all just come here to enjoy what we love best.

Speaker: 00:18:16

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:18:17

- A good conversation.

Speaker: 00:18:19

A cigar is never just a cigar.

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It is an experience that is deeply and heavily

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influenced by all the surrounding elements,

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all our senses,

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which I considered to be instruments,

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part of an orchestra,

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and only when well conducted,

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it's the symphony of that moment,

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the symphony of that experience.

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And also cigars, mean time.

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Time and appreciation for the other person

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that I'm smoking with for the beautiful conversation

Speaker: 00:18:55

that we're having.

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And that will just never stop

Speaker: 00:18:59

to fascinate and mesmerized me.

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And that's why I want to give it my all.

Speaker: 00:19:04

And that's why I'm so grateful to be here

Speaker: 00:19:07

with you all and be part of this wonderful ecosystem

Speaker: 00:19:10

and industry.

Speaker: 00:19:11

- This isn't your first PCA event, is it?

Speaker: 00:19:13

- It is the first, yes.

Speaker: 00:19:15

- This is your first.

Speaker: 00:19:16

- It's my first ever PCA.

Speaker: 00:19:17

It is my first ever time in Las Vegas, so.

Speaker: 00:19:20

- Wow.

Speaker: 00:19:22

Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Speaker: 00:19:23

- Thanks.

Speaker: 00:19:25

- First time.

Speaker: 00:19:26

So I remember my first time.

Speaker: 00:19:29

The magnitude of these booths,

Speaker: 00:19:31

the magnitude of all the facings,

Speaker: 00:19:35

seeing the icons,

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the people who are the faces of the company,

Speaker: 00:19:40

the master blenders,

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what does that feel like?

Speaker: 00:19:44

I get goosebumps thinking about it.

Speaker: 00:19:45

What does that feel like?

Speaker: 00:19:47

That was so energizing to me.

Speaker: 00:19:50

Was it the same for you

Speaker: 00:19:51

when you walked into the showroom floor,

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were you just kinda jaw dropped

Speaker: 00:19:56

and like experiencing it all?

Speaker: 00:19:57

- So there's different components to the answer.

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First of all, I'm used to similar trade shows

Speaker: 00:20:04

from the spirits industry,

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and they're probably even bigger

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with like the Moët Hennessy,

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and the large Diageo booths of Johnnie Walker

Speaker: 00:20:16

- Right. - and whatnot.

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So that to me wasn't as surprising or shocking.

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And the second element when it comes to the people

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and the conversations,

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you know, I was very fortunate and blessed

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to be hosting the Light 'Em Up Lounge

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for the last one and a half years.

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- Yeah.

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- And on a weekly basis,

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we welcome the icons of the industry,

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the master blenders, brand owners, manufacturers,

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media professionals, Boveda as a company

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to our virtual lounge.

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So I already had meaningful and deep conversations

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with all those people,

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even though only virtually.

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And now I come here and for the first time

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I see these people in person.

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Some of them I met before,

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others it's truly the first encounter,

Speaker: 00:21:09

but because of the quality of conversation

Speaker: 00:21:12

that I was fortunate to share with those people upfront

Speaker: 00:21:15

through our Zoom lounge, through phone calls, privates,

Speaker: 00:21:21

herfs even though virtually,

Speaker: 00:21:24

I feel so deeply connected with those people

Speaker: 00:21:26

that when I listened to Carlito speak the other day

Speaker: 00:21:31

and after he gave his speech with an epic mic drop

Speaker: 00:21:36

at the end.

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He saw me standing at the other end of the room

Speaker: 00:21:43

and he just stood still for a moment,

Speaker: 00:21:44

and you could see like when he starts to tremble

Speaker: 00:21:50

and he walks over to me and he gives me a hug

Speaker: 00:21:53

and we both start crying.

Speaker: 00:21:55

And it's just like that special moment.

Speaker: 00:21:59

And even though you hug that person for the first time,

Speaker: 00:22:02

you feel like you've known each other forever.

Speaker: 00:22:05

- Yeah.

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- And to me,

Speaker: 00:22:07

that comes down to the quality of conversation

Speaker: 00:22:09

and the quality of relationship that you build.

Speaker: 00:22:13

And again, what fascinates me about that

Speaker: 00:22:16

is the caliber of people in this industry

Speaker: 00:22:20

is beyond everything I have experienced to this moment

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in my life.

Speaker: 00:22:25

And that's why

Speaker: 00:22:26

it doesn't matter how often you meet those people

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or how many conversations you had with them.

Speaker: 00:22:31

The sheer quality that you share is what matters.

Speaker: 00:22:35

And that's how I think about relationships in general.

Speaker: 00:22:38

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:39

- It's not about having 10, 20, 50 friends.

Speaker: 00:22:43

It's about five real ones

Speaker: 00:22:44

and sharing meaningful conversations with them.

Speaker: 00:22:48

So to me, it was a mesmerizing experience,

Speaker: 00:22:50

and I'm utterly grateful and humbled

Speaker: 00:22:53

by having the chance to be here

Speaker: 00:22:55

and meeting all these people and sharing those moments.

Speaker: 00:22:58

It means everything to me.

Speaker: 00:23:00

- How long are you in town for?

Speaker: 00:23:02

- I will leave Thursday morning,

Speaker: 00:23:04

so overall the week

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because it's a lengthy flight from Austria to come here.

Speaker: 00:23:07

So it wouldn't make sense to just be in Las Vegas

Speaker: 00:23:10

for like four days.

Speaker: 00:23:11

We will be hosting a Light 'Em Up Lounge from Las Vegas,

Speaker: 00:23:15

do a little PCA after show.

Speaker: 00:23:18

- Sweet.

Speaker: 00:23:19

- And then I'm going back the day after.

Speaker: 00:23:20

- And is that all with Cigar Journal?

Speaker: 00:23:23

- It's independent.

Speaker: 00:23:24

Light 'Em Up is an entirely independent project.

Speaker: 00:23:27

I am part of the Cigar Journal family

Speaker: 00:23:29

as a contributing author and as part of the tasting panel.

Speaker: 00:23:33

But Light 'Em Up has always been an independent platform

Speaker: 00:23:36

and it continues to be so.

Speaker: 00:23:39

- Newsflash,

Speaker: 00:23:40

we have somebody from a publication

Speaker: 00:23:45

that you all probably read or see in the smoke shops,

Speaker: 00:23:48

Cigar Journal.

Speaker: 00:23:50

And he just said he's on the tasting panel.

Speaker: 00:23:53

Now the tasting panel works

Speaker: 00:23:54

where they send out cigars blindly,

Speaker: 00:23:57

unbanded, but they have numbered bans on them,

Speaker: 00:24:00

so they know which one is what.

Speaker: 00:24:03

Their packaged with Boveda

Speaker: 00:24:04

so that they're humidified properly and taste properly.

Speaker: 00:24:07

And then Reinhard and several other people

Speaker: 00:24:11

have to analyze the flavors coming out of that,

Speaker: 00:24:15

write them down,

Speaker: 00:24:16

and then score the cigar based on construction,

Speaker: 00:24:20

burn, draw, flavor, overall experience, all the above.

Speaker: 00:24:24

It's very technical.

Speaker: 00:24:25

That's just the broad basis of what it is.

Speaker: 00:24:28

Now, walk me through when you receive that tasting kit,

Speaker: 00:24:37

how do you set it up?

Speaker: 00:24:38

What are the things essential

Speaker: 00:24:40

so that you can give it your full attention?

Speaker: 00:24:46

- I would say try to smoke in a comfortable,

Speaker: 00:24:51

calm environment.

Speaker: 00:24:53

Make sure that your palate is well-rested,

Speaker: 00:24:56

that you haven't smoked three other cigars that day.

Speaker: 00:25:00

That you haven't eaten anything before

Speaker: 00:25:03

or drank anything just before that would interfere

Speaker: 00:25:06

with your evaluation and with your experience.

Speaker: 00:25:10

And then just try to focus and give the cigar a fair chance.

Speaker: 00:25:18

The essence of blind tasting

Speaker: 00:25:19

is to shut off all misconceptions and preconceptions

Speaker: 00:25:24

that you would possibly have,

Speaker: 00:25:27

and just take that humble product,

Speaker: 00:25:31

enjoy it at your pace and be analytical about it.

Speaker: 00:25:39

For me, my background

Speaker: 00:25:41

with the wine and spirits education trust

Speaker: 00:25:44

gave me a very analytical approach

Speaker: 00:25:46

to blind tasting.

Speaker: 00:25:48

So I'm well-experienced with sampling all sorts of products,

Speaker: 00:25:52

whether that's wine, spirits, coffee, tea.

Speaker: 00:25:55

- You said analytical approach.

Speaker: 00:25:57

Explain that.

Speaker: 00:25:59

- It means that I go into a certain routine

Speaker: 00:26:04

of how I evaluate a product.

Speaker: 00:26:07

With a spirits or a wine,

Speaker: 00:26:09

it would first be the visual appearance,

Speaker: 00:26:12

same for a cigar.

Speaker: 00:26:14

You would then go into the olfactory sensations,

Speaker: 00:26:20

afterwards, the palates,

Speaker: 00:26:25

all the different layers of taste

Speaker: 00:26:29

that you can pick up.

Speaker: 00:26:33

And then you draw some conclusions

Speaker: 00:26:36

towards the very end,

Speaker: 00:26:38

and only then you start to think about,

Speaker: 00:26:40

so with X amount of minerality,

Speaker: 00:26:45

X amount of alcohol,

Speaker: 00:26:47

or in this case nicotine strength,

Speaker: 00:26:51

complexity, length, mouth feel, smoke production.

Speaker: 00:26:57

All these different parameters

Speaker: 00:27:00

can give you an indication as to

Speaker: 00:27:03

what a certain product might be.

Speaker: 00:27:06

It doesn't even matter to think about

Speaker: 00:27:08

oh, this could be X brand,

Speaker: 00:27:09

or it comes from Honduras, Nicaragua, or the Dominican.

Speaker: 00:27:12

- Right.

Speaker: 00:27:13

- You just draw your conclusions,

Speaker: 00:27:14

you write them down,

Speaker: 00:27:16

and that's the end of the story, right.

Speaker: 00:27:17

So, when I say analytical,

Speaker: 00:27:19

it's truly about having that structured approach

Speaker: 00:27:24

to go through all these different components,

Speaker: 00:27:26

because then it makes it easier for you

Speaker: 00:27:29

to shut off all the surrounding noise,

Speaker: 00:27:32

because you know your routine,

Speaker: 00:27:34

you know all these different parameters

Speaker: 00:27:36

that you're going through one after the other.

Speaker: 00:27:39

And that helps me a lot.

Speaker: 00:27:41

If for example, I have to sample a new product

Speaker: 00:27:43

in an ambiance like a busy trade show floor,

Speaker: 00:27:47

because I can almost tune out the world around me

Speaker: 00:27:51

because I know okay, let's do the visual appearance first.

Speaker: 00:27:55

I have a look at the veins.

Speaker: 00:27:57

I just test the roll,

Speaker: 00:28:00

how tightly packed it is,

Speaker: 00:28:02

the color of the wrapper,

Speaker: 00:28:05

triple cap or not.

Speaker: 00:28:07

You cut it, you do the cold draw,

Speaker: 00:28:11

the sensation on your lips.

Speaker: 00:28:13

You light the cigar,

Speaker: 00:28:14

all the various aromas that come to mind,

Speaker: 00:28:18

all the tastes sensations.

Speaker: 00:28:20

And it's just that structured routine

Speaker: 00:28:22

that truly helps you to focus on the product

Speaker: 00:28:26

and leave the world aside,

Speaker: 00:28:30

and also to leave preconceptions aside.

Speaker: 00:28:32

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:28:33

- And you wouldn't believe, even in the blind tasting,

Speaker: 00:28:35

we have preconceptions.

Speaker: 00:28:37

If you see the color of the wrapper

Speaker: 00:28:40

and you just can't stand the Connecticut shade,

Speaker: 00:28:42

you will already have a bias in mind,

Speaker: 00:28:44

and you will probably downgrade the product

Speaker: 00:28:47

because you say like,

Speaker: 00:28:48

I just don't like Connecticut shades

Speaker: 00:28:49

no matter what's coming.

Speaker: 00:28:51

You'll say oh yeah, I knew that.

Speaker: 00:28:54

And I've seen this over and over again,

Speaker: 00:28:57

also in the wine and spirits industry,

Speaker: 00:28:58

a lot of people pick up a product,

Speaker: 00:29:01

they smell it,

Speaker: 00:29:02

they say oh, it's must be German Riesling

Speaker: 00:29:04

because of the first nose.

Speaker: 00:29:06

And then those people would write their tasting notes

Speaker: 00:29:09

out of the head and their memories

Speaker: 00:29:12

of what they think German Riesling would be,

Speaker: 00:29:14

and not out of the glass.

Speaker: 00:29:17

I'm a fairly young dude.

Speaker: 00:29:19

I have very little experience

Speaker: 00:29:20

with all the exclusive wines of the world.

Speaker: 00:29:23

And even when I entered the cigar industry,

Speaker: 00:29:26

I was sort of a novice compared to some of the guys

Speaker: 00:29:30

that would be smoking cigars for 30, 40 years.

Speaker: 00:29:33

- Right.

Speaker: 00:29:33

- It actually helped me because I could just focus

Speaker: 00:29:36

on the product itself,

Speaker: 00:29:38

go through my evaluation process,

Speaker: 00:29:42

and just leave the bias behind.

Speaker: 00:29:46

I know it's never possible to be totally unbiased,

Speaker: 00:29:51

but I try.

Speaker: 00:29:52

- You're trying real hard, that's good.

Speaker: 00:29:54

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:29:55

- You have to consciously think of leaving the bias aside.

Speaker: 00:29:59

That's why I love taking bands off cigars.

Speaker: 00:30:03

- Then again, I recently wrote an article in Cigar Journal.

Speaker: 00:30:07

It was too serious about blind tasting.

Speaker: 00:30:13

And then in the second feature I wrote about the antithesis,

Speaker: 00:30:18

which is there is no blind tasting,

Speaker: 00:30:21

because as much as we can, as part of a tasting panel,

Speaker: 00:30:24

or even as an end consumer,

Speaker: 00:30:27

set up a blind tasting in order to evaluate,

Speaker: 00:30:32

that's a very unreal situation for most consumers.

Speaker: 00:30:38

Because they never do a blind tasting.

Speaker: 00:30:40

So all the biases of the box,

Speaker: 00:30:42

the ring, the color of the wrapper

Speaker: 00:30:45

will impact their experience.

Speaker: 00:30:47

- Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:30:49

- So you almost have to factor that in.

Speaker: 00:30:50

Plus I find it very interesting

Speaker: 00:30:52

to consider those two-thesis and antithesis,

Speaker: 00:30:57

and come to the synthesis of it all.

Speaker: 00:31:00

- Yes.

Speaker: 00:31:00

But taking the bands off and removing the brand

Speaker: 00:31:05

to me, brings a whole new element

Speaker: 00:31:08

that you're really not used to.

Speaker: 00:31:09

Because it's very rare that you would ever have,

Speaker: 00:31:13

you would never buy,

Speaker: 00:31:15

most cigars, you would never buy blindly,

Speaker: 00:31:17

not knowing any,

Speaker: 00:31:18

I mean, you're investing your dollars into them.

Speaker: 00:31:20

So now when I give people cigars

Speaker: 00:31:22

sometimes I like to unband them

Speaker: 00:31:23

and just say tell me what you think.

Speaker: 00:31:26

- I would definitely and wholeheartedly

Speaker: 00:31:28

recommend it to everybody to everybody

Speaker: 00:31:32

to try that.

Speaker: 00:31:33

And you could even go to your trusted tobacconist

Speaker: 00:31:36

and retailer and ask them to give you

Speaker: 00:31:39

three different cigars,

Speaker: 00:31:42

probably all the same vitola, get three Robustos

Speaker: 00:31:45

all the same wrapper.

Speaker: 00:31:48

Whether that's shade, sun-grown, Maduro,

Speaker: 00:31:51

whatever you fancy,

Speaker: 00:31:52

and have them unband the cigar for you,

Speaker: 00:31:54

and then just smoke them and try them.

Speaker: 00:31:57

And it's a wonderful experience

Speaker: 00:31:59

to recalibrate your own perception.

Speaker: 00:32:03

And also probably your opinion about

Speaker: 00:32:07

all various brands and products.

Speaker: 00:32:09

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:10

That's a good idea.

Speaker: 00:32:11

I've never asked a retailer to go in the humidor,

Speaker: 00:32:15

pick out three or four cigars,

Speaker: 00:32:18

unband them,

Speaker: 00:32:19

and then give them to me.

Speaker: 00:32:20

And I pay them because I'm worried

Speaker: 00:32:22

that they're going to be $50 a piece cigars.

Speaker: 00:32:25

Maybe I got to say I got a budget.

Speaker: 00:32:28

- Makes sense.

Speaker: 00:32:29

- Here's 60 bucks,

Speaker: 00:32:31

go in there and get me five sticks.

Speaker: 00:32:33

- Another fun little exercise is

Speaker: 00:32:37

you could print colored cigar rings,

Speaker: 00:32:41

and take three of the same cigars,

Speaker: 00:32:46

unband them, and put on those different colored rings.

Speaker: 00:32:52

And then do your tasting notes,

Speaker: 00:32:55

smoke the cigars,

Speaker: 00:32:57

and compare the different experiences.

Speaker: 00:33:01

And you will see simply by having a different color

Speaker: 00:33:06

on the ring, how your perception will shift.

Speaker: 00:33:10

And that was what I meant before,

Speaker: 00:33:12

where every single detail matters.

Speaker: 00:33:14

And it can even alter your perception of smell and taste.

Speaker: 00:33:17

It's things like that.

Speaker: 00:33:18

- The exact same blend.

Speaker: 00:33:21

All three are the exact same cigar.

Speaker: 00:33:24

- Different color rings.

Speaker: 00:33:25

- Three different colored rings.

Speaker: 00:33:27

And then you smoke them like later

Speaker: 00:33:30

after you've forgotten that you've done this or what?

Speaker: 00:33:32

- You could take three consecutive days

Speaker: 00:33:36

and every single day in the morning,

Speaker: 00:33:37

when your palate is fresh,

Speaker: 00:33:39

you smoke the same cigar,

Speaker: 00:33:40

but it has a different color on it.

Speaker: 00:33:43

And you write down your tasting notes.

Speaker: 00:33:45

And if you're fair to yourself,

Speaker: 00:33:47

you will realize that your perception of smell and taste

Speaker: 00:33:50

of the aromas and flavors will be slightly different

Speaker: 00:33:53

because the color of the ring,

Speaker: 00:33:54

the visual appearance alters your perception

Speaker: 00:33:57

of smell and taste.

Speaker: 00:33:58

- No.

Speaker: 00:33:59

- I do that in my sensory seminars.

Speaker: 00:34:01

For example, with apples or tomatoes,

Speaker: 00:34:04

I would present all the people at the seminar

Speaker: 00:34:07

with a slice of apple on a tray.

Speaker: 00:34:10

And right after you would get a slice of apple or a tomato,

Speaker: 00:34:15

same fruit or vegetable from a different plate.

Speaker: 00:34:19

And then I asked people about their experience.

Speaker: 00:34:22

And the first one is probably gonna be fresh,

Speaker: 00:34:26

has more acidity, more liveliness,

Speaker: 00:34:29

probably feels a little unripe even.

Speaker: 00:34:31

Whereas the second one is luscious, mellow, full,

Speaker: 00:34:34

sweet, peak ripe.

Speaker: 00:34:38

And the only thing that I alter is the color of the plate

Speaker: 00:34:41

or the tray that I'm serving it from.

Speaker: 00:34:42

So one might be light blue and the other one is deep red.

Speaker: 00:34:45

- No way.

Speaker: 00:34:46

- And the visual background

Speaker: 00:34:48

will alter your overall experience.

Speaker: 00:34:51

And only afterwards I tell people it's the very same fruit.

Speaker: 00:34:54

It's the very same piece of vegetable that you just enjoyed,

Speaker: 00:34:56

but it's the surrounding elements

Speaker: 00:34:58

that will change everything.

Speaker: 00:35:00

- I love this.

Speaker: 00:35:02

You change the color of the presentation plate.

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- Yeah.

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- And it made the fruit taste different.

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- And that's why I said for a tobacconist,

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think about how you present cigars in your store,

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think about the tray that you use to present certain cigars.

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And if I want my customer to have a more

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like a soft connotation,

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or an idea of that cigar,

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it could be mellow, creamy,

Speaker: 00:35:36

not overly spicy,

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I'd much rather choose a round plate,

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maybe velvet on there.

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Because that will already impact people's perception

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on how the cigar will ultimately feel and taste.

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- A velvet, round plate

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that I put my creamy, buttery smooth cigars on.

Speaker: 00:35:59

- Or even take a more robust, full-bodied cigar

Speaker: 00:36:03

that has a lot of spice and pepper.

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But then you can smooth now the experience

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by presenting it in a different way.

Speaker: 00:36:11

- That's interesting.

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- That's what I call experience design.

Speaker: 00:36:15

Because it's not just about the perception anymore

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and you analyze the experience,

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but you understand that you can design an experience.

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- You tweak it.

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- You can tweak it.

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Exactly.

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- You can absolutely change the experience

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of the exact same thing.

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- Don't get me wrong.

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It's not about tweaking the experience

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to a point where you try to fake it or engineer it

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because you want to force people into something.

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Quite the opposite.

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It, and this is where the hospitality component comes in.

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I want to enhance it.

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I want the experience for the other person

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to be as memorable and meaningful as possible.

Speaker: 00:36:52

- Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:36:54

We all have that time when we sat down with a cigar

Speaker: 00:36:59

or somebody and it just everything was complimenting

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the whole experience,

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the conversation, presentation, the music,

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the accoutrements, the whole thing.

Speaker: 00:37:16

It just, and it's not the cigar that did it.

Speaker: 00:37:19

It's everything else.

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- Yeah.

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- It all matters.

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- Couldn't agree more.

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- Amazing.

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- It's fascinating.

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- I could be on this topic for hours.

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I just want to pick your brain with everything.

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What other tidbits should I know,

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if I'm interested in adding three things

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to my cigar smoking experience to make it better,

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what are the top three things I should do as a consumer,

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just by myself

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to enhance my experience smoking cigars?

Speaker: 00:37:59

- The obvious one would probably be

Speaker: 00:38:01

what everybody knows is pairing, right.

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So choosing the right beverage and maybe a snack.

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Let's take a more sophisticated or less beaten track.

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- Sure.

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- Think about the soundtrack.

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To me, every cigar has a soundtrack.

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Think about tactile sensations, fabrics,

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the chair that you're seated on,

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or the carpets that your feet are on,

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or maybe just a piece of fabric that you have in your hand

Speaker: 00:38:34

while smoking the cigar.

Speaker: 00:38:36

- Really?

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- It will have a dramatic impact

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if you have a cold piece of metal in your hand,

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a warm leather, or like a velvety soft pillow.

Speaker: 00:38:50

You could have it next to your,

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the place where you enjoy your cigar,

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and just feel it.

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That could change the whole thing.

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And of course, lighting, colors, visuals,

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all that could dramatically change.

Speaker: 00:39:07

So be cognizant and be aware of your surroundings.

Speaker: 00:39:12

And I think the easiest ones to alter,

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be it at home or at a tobacco shop,

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or at your lounge is visuals and sound.

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- Visuals and sound and tactile feel.

Speaker: 00:39:25

- Yeah.

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- I love it.

Speaker: 00:39:30

That's broad, but it's specific as well.

Speaker: 00:39:33

And it can be like you said, micro dose basically.

Speaker: 00:39:37

I don't have to have a full leather chair.

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I could have a piece of warm leather.

Speaker: 00:39:42

I could have a velvety pillow.

Speaker: 00:39:46

I could have a great soundtrack on

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that I enjoy the music,

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so I'm probably going to enjoy this cigar.

Speaker: 00:39:53

- You could do a very easy examination of that.

Speaker: 00:39:57

If you smoked the very same cigar

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and you choose to complete opposite tracks of music,

Speaker: 00:40:06

and both could work for a cigar

Speaker: 00:40:09

because you can change the dynamic.

Speaker: 00:40:12

And you've probably like one better than the other,

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but it will be a totally different smoking experience.

Speaker: 00:40:18

And the same is true for lighting.

Speaker: 00:40:21

Nobody wants to sit in a neon bright ambience

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and smoke a calm, luscious stark, Maduro cigar.

Speaker: 00:40:30

- Harsh lighting.

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No good.

Speaker: 00:40:32

- And I see it everywhere

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in so many lounges or retail stores.

Speaker: 00:40:39

The lighting is just way off.

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Or you have seven different LED screens

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with 10 different sports games going on.

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They're all fighting for your attention.

Speaker: 00:40:51

And then you're seated there

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and you're supposed to enjoy your cigar

Speaker: 00:40:54

where everything's just you know,

Speaker: 00:40:56

grabbing for your attention. - Right.

Speaker: 00:40:58

- So play with that.

Speaker: 00:41:00

Like the cigar that I'm smoking right now,

Speaker: 00:41:05

it's chocolatey.

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It has a salty minerality and the slight pepper finish.

Speaker: 00:41:10

If I would accompany this with Nessun dorma for example,

Speaker: 00:41:17

that wonderful piece of music, right.

Speaker: 00:41:19

It would just set the stage for this cigar

Speaker: 00:41:24

to shine in all its glory,

Speaker: 00:41:25

give it depth, give it richness.

Speaker: 00:41:28

And it will enhance the grandness

Speaker: 00:41:34

of the whole smoking experience.

Speaker: 00:41:37

Whereas I could have this cigar

Speaker: 00:41:38

with a very funky, upbeat sound like Carwash

Speaker: 00:41:44

or something that gets you in a more upbeat mood.

Speaker: 00:41:49

It will also work for the cigar,

Speaker: 00:41:51

but it will probably bring out some more of the spiciness,

Speaker: 00:41:54

the pepper and the salt will be more pronounced

Speaker: 00:41:57

and more to the forefront.

Speaker: 00:41:58

You will get a little more tingle of slight acidity

Speaker: 00:42:02

towards the very back.

Speaker: 00:42:03

And the finish will probably be just more lively overall

Speaker: 00:42:08

than with the classical music,

Speaker: 00:42:11

with the strings and the brass,

Speaker: 00:42:13

and that opera voice,

Speaker: 00:42:16

it will probably feel more elegant,

Speaker: 00:42:20

softer to the touch,

Speaker: 00:42:21

and you will get some more of the bit of chocolate

Speaker: 00:42:25

and the velvety undertones.

Speaker: 00:42:28

- I love it.

Speaker: 00:42:29

And just so you don't start typing

Speaker: 00:42:31

what cigar are you smoking?

Speaker: 00:42:33

because it's gonna be all over the comment board.

Speaker: 00:42:36

- I'm currently smoking the ROOM101 FARCE Maduro.

Speaker: 00:42:42

It's a beautiful cigar.

Speaker: 00:42:44

- Yes.

Speaker: 00:42:45

Good.

Speaker: 00:42:46

Glad we clarified that.

Speaker: 00:42:47

because otherwise we'd have to go back to you and ask

Speaker: 00:42:49

and put it in the comment board.

Speaker: 00:42:51

- But for all those people who are curious,

Speaker: 00:42:55

hit me up whatever you want to know.

Speaker: 00:42:57

- Where can they get a hold of you?

Speaker: 00:43:00

- It's quite easy.

Speaker: 00:43:02

Find me on Pohorec.com, P-O-H-O-R-E-C.com.

Speaker: 00:43:06

That's my personal website.

Speaker: 00:43:08

And of course, check out LightEmUpWorld.com,

Speaker: 00:43:12

which is sort of the overarching pillow

Speaker: 00:43:17

for all our Light 'Em Up endeavors.

Speaker: 00:43:19

So that would encompass the Light 'Em Up Lounge,

Speaker: 00:43:22

which is our weekly live show.

Speaker: 00:43:24

And also the new application that we're launching right now,

Speaker: 00:43:28

which we considered the Swiss Army Knife

Speaker: 00:43:31

for modern cigar enthusiasts.

Speaker: 00:43:33

- And what's the URL for that.

Speaker: 00:43:35

- It's LightEmUpGo.com,

Speaker: 00:43:37

but you will also find it through our main page,

Speaker: 00:43:41

LightEmUpWorld.com.

Speaker: 00:43:42

- Perfect.

Speaker: 00:43:43

And what about Instagram?

Speaker: 00:43:44

What's your handle?

Speaker: 00:43:45

- It's Reinhard Pohorec, my name,

Speaker: 00:43:48

and you can also find Light 'Em Up World

Speaker: 00:43:50

and Light 'Em Up Go on Instagram,

Speaker: 00:43:51

but we're just starting that.

Speaker: 00:43:54

So it's a fairly new endeavor.

Speaker: 00:43:55

- That's it right there.

Speaker: 00:43:57

You have three things to do,

Speaker: 00:43:59

visual, tactile, and audio,

Speaker: 00:44:02

change it up,

Speaker: 00:44:03

make your smoking experience slightly different.

Speaker: 00:44:06

Try it.

Speaker: 00:44:07

It works.

Speaker: 00:44:08

I guarantee it.

Speaker: 00:44:09

Thank you so much, Reinhard

Speaker: 00:44:11

for being a part of this episode of Box Press.

Speaker: 00:44:13

- It's my pleasure.

Speaker: 00:44:14

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker: 00:44:16

- We can do a lot more of this,

Speaker: 00:44:17

because this was just the tip of the iceberg.

Speaker: 00:44:19

- And we hopefully will.

Speaker: 00:44:20

- Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:44:21

- I have done multi-sensory cigar experiences,

Speaker: 00:44:26

even virtually.

Speaker: 00:44:27

I once did an Instagram live with Klaas Peter Kelner,

Speaker: 00:44:31

and we were smoking Davidoff cigars.

Speaker: 00:44:33

And I was actually through the Instagram live

Speaker: 00:44:36

playing different musics with the cigars

Speaker: 00:44:40

that we were smoking,

Speaker: 00:44:41

changing the visuals and the color patterns,

Speaker: 00:44:45

and having different pairings.

Speaker: 00:44:47

So maybe we can do one with Boveda.

Speaker: 00:44:49

- Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:44:51

I'm down.

Speaker: 00:44:52

It all matters.

Speaker: 00:44:53

And it's fun.

Speaker: 00:44:54

- That also something I would love to end with

Speaker: 00:44:57

and let everybody know.

Speaker: 00:44:59

This probably sounds a little weird and theoretical

Speaker: 00:45:04

to a lot of people.

Speaker: 00:45:05

And you're like yeah, whatever

Speaker: 00:45:08

this dude is just full of #!%&.

Speaker: 00:45:10

And he's talking about all these crazy things.

Speaker: 00:45:13

I just want to sit down and have a cigar.

Speaker: 00:45:15

- Oh yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:16

There's plenty of people out there.

Speaker: 00:45:18

I just want to smoke it.

Speaker: 00:45:19

- It's perfectly fine.

Speaker: 00:45:21

You know.

Speaker: 00:45:22

I'm not here to tell anybody what they're supposed to smell,

Speaker: 00:45:26

taste, or experience.

Speaker: 00:45:28

I'm a super simple, humble, easy guy.

Speaker: 00:45:31

I want everybody to enjoy fine cigars, a great meal,

Speaker: 00:45:37

a great beverage, in whichever way people want.

Speaker: 00:45:43

I would just like for people to every now and then

Speaker: 00:45:48

become aware of their surroundings,

Speaker: 00:45:51

the beauty of experience and perception,

Speaker: 00:45:55

and of our senses.

Speaker: 00:45:56

Because as I said before, our senses are instruments,

Speaker: 00:45:59

and we are all gifted with those precious senses

Speaker: 00:46:04

from baby days on.

Speaker: 00:46:06

And especially in our modern world,

Speaker: 00:46:10

in our digitalized fast-paced world,

Speaker: 00:46:13

we've become so good at tuning out

Speaker: 00:46:17

and disconnecting ourselves from our senses.

Speaker: 00:46:21

This is just all too much, right.

Speaker: 00:46:24

And I want people to re-engage and reconnect

Speaker: 00:46:27

with their senses because it will change

Speaker: 00:46:30

not just your smoking experience, but your entire life.

Speaker: 00:46:34

And it makes you appreciate all the little wonders

Speaker: 00:46:38

and the little things that we have around us

Speaker: 00:46:40

every single day.

Speaker: 00:46:42

- Right.

Speaker: 00:46:42

- And it just makes life wonderful.

Speaker: 00:46:45

- Well said, well said.

Speaker: 00:46:48

Thank you again, Reinhard for being on here.

Speaker: 00:46:51

I appreciate you so much

Speaker: 00:46:52

bringing so much value to the industry,

Speaker: 00:46:54

and to us as consumers.

Speaker: 00:46:56

- It all comes from here.

Speaker: 00:46:58

So I have to thank you and many thanks

Speaker: 00:46:59

for giving me the opportunity

Speaker: 00:47:01

and sitting down with you for a wonderful conversation

Speaker: 00:47:04

and a great cigar.

Speaker: 00:47:05

- This was totally unplanned.

Speaker: 00:47:06

So I appreciate you just jumping in.

Speaker: 00:47:08

- Any time.

Speaker: 00:47:09

- With both feet.

Speaker: 00:47:10

- Any time.

Speaker: 00:47:11

- What a great conversation.

Speaker: 00:47:13

- Thank you.

Speaker: 00:47:14

- There you hear it,

Speaker: 00:47:15

Reinhard from Light 'Em Up Lounge and many other things.

Speaker: 00:47:18

It's a sensory experience.

Speaker: 00:47:19

If you want to know more,

Speaker: 00:47:21

check him out, follow him.

Speaker: 00:47:23

I'm getting goosebumps,

Speaker: 00:47:24

just talking about and thinking about it.

Speaker: 00:47:26

So I'm gonna end it there.

Speaker: 00:47:28

And of course, as always BovedaInc.com

Speaker: 00:47:31

for all of your needs to protect your cigars,

Speaker: 00:47:34

keep them safe, smoke them if you got them,

Speaker: 00:47:36

and enjoy your week.

Speaker: 00:47:38

- And Light 'Em Up.

Speaker: 00:47:39

- Light 'Em Up.

Speaker: 00:47:41

Key ingredient is Light 'Em Up.